Game Spotlight: Resident Evil 5 demo
Game Spotlight | 31 January 2009, 12:39 PM
For the second Game Spotlight, I thought I’d try something different. Instead of putting the spotlight on a game that’s already been around for awhile, why not preview a game that hasn’t even been released yet? The game I’ve chosen is the Resident Evil 5 demo which was just released on Xbox Live a few days ago.
As has been much publicised, Resident Evil 5 is heavily focused on co-operative gameplay, so I thought, “Why not have a co-op article to go with it.” When the full version of RE5 is finally released on March 13, Jeff (aka Moelman) and I are going to be playing it together in online co-op mode all the way through to the very end.
But for now, Jeff and I are going to share our thoughts about our experience with the Resident Evil 5 demo…
Lynk Former says:
I can say for sure that I’m definitely not caught up in any of the hype with Resident Evil 5. While I am a fan of the series and can’t wait to get my hands on the full version, I am completely aware that it really is pretty much Resident Evil 4 in HD with added co-op. Going into the demo, I knew this and was greeted with exactly what I expected. However, while it is heavily based off of the elements that made up RE4, it does have some differences that I noticed immediately in terms of its gameplay style.
Firstly, I’m so glad we’re offered a number of control schemes to choose from. However, I feel that Capcom didn’t go far enough… I hope that in the full version they add an option for the player to fully customise their control scheme. After going through quite a few playthroughs in single player and co-op with Jeff, I’ve decided that the type B controls work best for me. I can understand why strafing was added to the game since quite a lot of people seem to demand it… though, personally I find that turning is still a lot more important in a Resident Evil game than strafing ever will be. If I’m really worried about what’s around the corner, I’ll tilt the camera left or right as I walk forward, I don’t need to strafe.
As with most demo’s, there is a message at the start warning the player that this is a work in progress version of the game and to excuse any bugs we may find… I’m trying to keep that in mind, but I’m still worried about some of what I experienced the game. For example, the zombies/ganados hesitate at key moments in a very strange way, as if to purposefully give you and your partner a chance to get to safety. It happens both in single and co-op play and I kind of wonder if this is due to some glitchy AI. Also, there was this one zombie/ganado that must’ve been a genome soldier in Metal Gear Solid in his past life. I stood right in front of him in two different instances and he didn’t even see me… he just stood there looking straight at me. Not only that, but I’ve even noticed that the groups of zombies/ganados have trouble with which character they have their attention on. There was a very funny moment where a large group of zombies/ganados completely ignored me as walked right by and even bumped into me because they were all after Jeff.
Now, I could overlook all of those problems like the demo asks me to, however the obvious reuse of RE4 assets including the motion captured character animations of the ganados from RE4 are too much. I know games of this generation are said to be extremely expensive, however I think a lot of people expected Capcom to put a little more effort and not cut some very obvious corners as they seem to have done.
With the complaints aside, I had fun… though, I think, purely because it’s a co-op game and that in itself makes a game 10 times better than playing by yourself. After playing through the demo, I’m even more convinced that RE5 won’t surpass RE4 for the simple fact that it’s only a natural progression and not something completely new like RE4 was. I know I’ll have fun playing the full game and I can’t wait to see what the story will bring. One thing I’m completely sure of though is the fact that this series is DEFINITELY not survival horror from this point on… it’s more along the lines of survival action now.
Moelman says:
Unlike Lynk I can say that Resident Evil 5 has definitely sucked me in. It is definitely the game I am looking forward to most in 2009 and leading up to the demo’s release I had watched every possible gameplay video to get as much of the game as I could. Now that the demo is out and I’ve had a chance to play through it more than several times, I have a few first impressions. Overall the game plays just as I expected with a few interesting surprised. It is definitely Resident Evil 4 in HD but I don’t see that as a negative as RE4 is widely regarded as one of the greatest games of the previous generation.
There are definitely some key differences between Resident Evil 4 and 5. The demo probably had more enemies in one area than RE4 ever did throughout the entire game. I would say overall they take a similar number of shots to take down, but this is offset by playing with a partner. So far the enemies did not seem as smart as they were in RE4 though. It is almost like when an enemy is on their own they barely react, but when they are in a large group they can be very aggressive. I noticed I had to beat the enemies off of me when they’d grab on much more frequently than I remember doing in RE4. Also, the two mini-bosses, the executioner and the chainsaw-wielding villager were much harder and took much longer to kill than any of the chainsaw enemies in RE4.
For the control schemes, I stuck with the classic RE4 controls. As the series goes further away from its survival horror roots I’d like to see it not go any further than it has and for me the RE4 controls gave it a more classic feel. I also did not particularly care for some of the other new control styles. For me strafing is pointless in Resident Evil so I do not need a control scheme with that functionality.
Overall the demo was a ton of fun as I expected because of its co-op functionality. I do not expect the game to surpass Resident Evil 4 in terms of story or how the game plays overall but I am expecting a great experience because of co-op as I find playing with friends almost always makes a game more enjoyable. That along with stunning graphics and lighting effects and of course seeing the story play out should prove to make Resident Evil 5 worth the wait.
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Comments: 19
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Originally Posted by Moelman 
Unlike Lynk I can say that Resident Evil 5 has definitely sucked me in. It is definitely the game I am looking forward to most in 2009 and leading up to the demo's release I had watched every possible gameplay video to get as much of the game as I could. Now that the demo is out and I've had a chance to play through it more than several times, I have a few first impressions. Overall the game plays just as I expected with a few interesting surprised. It is definitely Resident Evil 4 in HD but I don't see that as a negative as RE4 is widely regarded as one of the greatest games of the previous generation.
I am... I'm just not overly hyped about it because it's nothing that new and different. About the only thing that really draws me in is the co-op itself and the story since I've been a long time fan of the series and have played almost all of the Resident Evil games (haven't played RE Gaiden). While RE4 is a hell of a great game, there are some things about RE5 that seem silly now that it's been a few years since the release of RE4. One of those things is the enemy AI which you even comment about...Quote:
There are definitely some key differences between Resident Evil 4 and 5. The demo probably had more enemies in one area than RE4 ever did throughout the entire game. I would say overall they take a similar number of shots to take down, but this is offset by playing with a partner. So far the enemies did not seem as smart as they were in RE4 though. It is almost like when an enemy is on their own they barely react, but when they are in a large group they can be very aggressive. I noticed I had to beat the enemies off of me when they'd grab on much more frequently than I remember doing in RE4. Also, the two mini-bosses, the executioner and the chainsaw-wielding villager were much harder and took much longer to kill than any of the chainsaw enemies in RE4.
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For the control schemes, I stuck with the classic RE4 controls. As the series goes further away from its survival horror roots I'd like to see it not go any further than it has and for me the RE4 controls gave it a more classic feel. I also did not particularly care for some of the other new control styles. For me strafing is pointless in Resident Evil so I do not need a control scheme with that functionality.
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Overall the demo was a ton of fun as I expected because of its co-op functionality. I do not expect the game to surpass Resident Evil 4 in terms of story or how the game plays overall but I am expecting a great experience because of co-op as I find playing with friends almost always makes a game more enjoyable. That along with stunning graphics and lighting effects and of course seeing the story play out should prove to make Resident Evil 5 worth the wait.
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former
You make it sound as if I'm not excited about RE5 at all I am... I'm just not overly hyped about it because it's nothing that new and different. About the only thing that really draws me in is the co-op itself and the story since I've been a long time fan of the series and have played almost all of the Resident Evil games (haven't played RE Gaiden). While RE4 is a hell of a great game, there are some things about RE5 that seem silly now that it's been a few years since the release of RE4. One of those things is the enemy AI which you even comment about...
I just get caught up in the hype of games I'm really looking forward to more (Force Unleashed 
). Even though I definitely haven't played Resident Evil games as much or as long as you have the story is still one of the main things that intrigues me. I can't wait to encounter Wesker as he is just such a badass and see what he is up to. 
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former
I noticed another very stupid enemy AI flaw that carried over from RE4... They can't attack you when you're on a slightly higher platform or are behind a fence or a window. They're programmed to first climb up or over and THEN attack... you'd think Capcom would notice this and give them the ability to attack you from behind the fence or behind that window... In the first part of the village level, I saved quite a lot of ammo by knifing the villagers through the window... they just couldn't do anything about it at all even though they had objects they could throw at me and possibly hit me through the window if they wanted to.
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former
I remember starting off with type D, the default control scheme and then not liking it. I then fell back to type B but then fell back again to type A which is the original RE4 style mapped to the 360 controller. I have noticed that the type A style gives you a very big advantage in terms of melee combat. When prompted, you press X to perform a melee attack on the villagers and it can be very effective at causing damage and making them stumble back... I've noticed that if you're shooting at a group of enemies who are at close range by holding down the right trigger and pressing X, eventually and most of the time the melee prompt will appear and because you're already pressing down on the X button, you perform a melee attack instantly.
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Originally Posted by Moelman
Well I didn't mean to make it sound like that. I just get caught up in the hype of games I'm really looking forward to more (Force Unleashed ). Even though I definitely haven't played Resident Evil games as much or as long as you have the story is still one of the main things that intrigues me. I can't wait to encounter Wesker as he is just such a badass and see what he is up to.
Not only that, but at the end of the Resident Evil Degeneration movie, they have a bit where a corporation called TriCell has bought out WilPharma and has recovered the G-Virus... all of which will end up putting us into the events of Resident Evil 5 since it is the TriCell Corporation we'll be dealing with in the game.
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It is true what you say about the AI, it's too bad Capcom seems to have recycled a lot from RE4 instead of making improvements upon them. I suppose at first I didn't really think about the stuff you pointed out since it was present in RE4, but really when you think about it it's lazy of them. Hopefully the time they saved by bringing over so much from RE4 they spent making improvements elsewhere.
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That is one advantage I've noticed about type A as well, and I've us the opportunity for melee attacks as much as I am able to as they are very powerful, usually taking out an enemy.
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former
It's interesting what kind of support Capcom has given for Resident Evil 5. They released The Umbrella Chronicles on Wii, which may seem like a stand alone game, but is in fact a crash course for anyone who isn't familiar with the series and also highlights so key moments involving Wesker.Not only that, but at the end of the Resident Evil Degeneration movie, they have a bit where a corporation called TriCell has bought out WilPharma and has recovered the G-Virus... all of which will end up putting us into the events of Resident Evil 5 since it is the TriCell Corporation we'll be dealing with in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynk Former
Oh, I forgot to mention some other things... it's not very noticable in single player, but while in co-op, I did notice some slight vertical tearing issues in the demo. Also, while playing as Sheva, because you're not the host, you're susceptible to all the lag issues that may pop up. I'm sure you know that better than I do since you're playing as Sheva lol. Anyway, unlike most games where the frame rate drops and pauses, in RE5 the enemy reaction times are delayed to compensate for the lag... when I played as Sheva I found it really strange to shoot at a villager and then only 1-2 seconds later have them react... lol.
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Every time Chris melee attacks I keep thinking "FALCON PUNCH!"
I suppose that happens when you're on the juice. 
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Originally Posted by Moelman
Haha yeah, his punches are kind of ridiculous. I suppose that happens when you're on the juice.
Also, I love it when you can get a single villager and then we both knife them at the same time for a very gruesome kill lol
Oh yeah, which reminds me... there's one part about RE5 which I'm really worried about. I don't know if this is just for the demo or if it'll be like this for the full game, but I did notice some censoring... RE5 is not as gruesome as RE4. When you have a the chainsaw villager grinds his chainsaw through you... your head doesn't actually come off and there's no spray of blood. The Japanese version of RE4 was like that and I'm worried maybe that's going to be standard around the world now... if it is, it's a big disappointment. The great thing about RE4 was that at least once you let yourself get killed by the guy wielding the chainsaw just to see how awesome it is.
Also, it's funny how you don't actually get cut in half when you die as the executioner slams that huge axe down into you...
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former
There were some really cool co-op moments while you and I were playing. I love it when one of us performs a melee attack on a villager and they stumble back, and then the other player comes in to melee attack and finish them off XD That was so awesome and it happened quite a few times lol.Also, I love it when you can get a single villager and then we both knife them at the same time for a very gruesome kill lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynk Former
Oh yeah, which reminds me... there's one part about RE5 which I'm really worried about. I don't know if this is just for the demo or if it'll be like this for the full game, but I did notice some censoring... RE5 is not as gruesome as RE4. When you have a the chainsaw villager grinds his chainsaw through you... your head doesn't actually come off and there's no spray of blood. The Japanese version of RE4 was like that and I'm worried maybe that's going to be standard around the world now... if it is, it's a big disappointment. The great thing about RE4 was that at least once you let yourself get killed by the guy wielding the chainsaw just to see how awesome it is.
Oh yeah, another thing about the controls... The RE4 controls mapped to the 360 controller don't feel quite as good as they are on the GameCube controller itself... though when it really comes down to it, the most superior control scheme still belongs with the Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition.
I went back and replayed parts of RE4Wii and then compared it to the RE5demo... The Wii controls are just that much superior because you can do everything so much faster. Aiming, shooting, melee attacking, running. It's all mapped out on the Wii + Nunchuk controls so damn well. Plus it's so satisfying shaking the Wiimote to knife and get out of the ganados grips.
If I had one wish for this game, it would be to have some way of hacking RE5 to allow me to use the Wiimote + Nunchuk.
I went back and replayed parts of RE4Wii and then compared it to the RE5demo... The Wii controls are just that much superior because you can do everything so much faster. Aiming, shooting, melee attacking, running. It's all mapped out on the Wii + Nunchuk controls so damn well. Plus it's so satisfying shaking the Wiimote to knife and get out of the ganados grips.
If I had one wish for this game, it would be to have some way of hacking RE5 to allow me to use the Wiimote + Nunchuk.
Yep, Wii Edition by far has the best controls, the combination of Wii remote + nunchuck is just perfect. I still pick guys off pretty good in RE5 but I remember my accuracy percentage in RE4 Wii Edition was about 90%.
Oh man that would be so amazing. Somebody needs to do this now.
Also anyone else feel free to chime in. We are basically continuing our discussion from the original post but we want to hear what the rest of you have to say too.
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If I had one wish for this game, it would be to have some way of hacking RE5 to allow me to use the Wiimote + Nunchuk.
Also anyone else feel free to chime in.
We are basically continuing our discussion from the original post but we want to hear what the rest of you have to say too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moelman
Yep, Wii Edition by far has the best controls, the combination of Wii remote + nunchuck is just perfect. I still pick guys off pretty good in RE5 but I remember my accuracy percentage in RE4 Wii Edition was about 90%.
I played for about an hour in Mercenaries mode... damn, the Wiimote + Nunchuk controls are a thing of beauty. You get so many moments when there's a crowd of ganados around you and all you have left is your pistol. BANG-BANG-BANG! The ganados that were crowding around you from all angles have their heads exploding in a cloudy mist of blood and then BANG! You shoot another one in the face and he stumbles back and then you melee attack him and the group around him and send them flying. All in the space of 5 seconds. It's just like the movies lol.
You CANNOT do anything like that with traditional controls and still come out the end of the level with not even a scratch.
Also, in Mercenaries mode there are quite a few ganados that appear at once. I'd say, in about an estimate, the number of enemies in RE5 is just a few, maybe 4-6 more than the crowd you get gathering in Mercenaries mode.
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Also anyone else feel free to chime in. We are basically continuing our discussion from the original post but we want to hear what the rest of you have to say too.
We are basically continuing our discussion from the original post but we want to hear what the rest of you have to say too. let's hear everyone else's thoughts... even if you haven't played the demo. What do you think about Resident Evil 5?Well me and Lynk had played the demo through both levels and i can say i am loving now i been told about the re4 control method, best bet so far was i somersalted and kicked this bad guy and Lynk Falconed punched him bloody epic
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former
Yeah, come on guys let's hear everyone else's thoughts... even if you haven't played the demo. What do you think about Resident Evil 5?
Anyway, I've never played an RE game, so I'm not really invested in the series nor would I have any idea of what would be going on, plot wise. Also, since I've never been into the series there was no reason for me to follow this game so I don't really know much about it. From what trailers and previews I have seen and read however it looks like it would be a fun experience regardless of whether or not you could follow the story at all. That being said I probably wont get it, seeing as none of my friends are getting it, and most of the people here will get it for the 360, as they should. I'd have no one to play the co-op with and really that is the only thing that interests me with this game.
I've discovered something interesting and quite worrying while playing Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition... I've noticed that the villagers actually CAN attack you while they're on the other side of a fence or window... why this isn't possible with the villagers in RE5 is beyond me...
Ok so the demo hit the PSN today so I got to try it out and I'm feeling so-so about the game after playing the demo. First of all I think that some aspects of the controls are just retarded. Is it really necessary to make it so you have to hold X to run, why can't it just be about the amount of deflection of the analog stick? Secondly, why do I need to stop moving and ready my knife, is it so inconceivable that a person may be able to swing a knife while moving their feet? I get the perspective from people that, this is how Resident Evil has always been controlled, but seriously some of the aspects need to be changed, or at least have the option to be changed. I mean take a look at the Metal Gear Solid series, the controls continually changed from game to game, and changed for the better. The fact that you have to be stationary to shoot your gun in this game doesn't bother me like I've heard it bother others, in fact I think that game may be too easy if it allowed you to run and gun, basically my gripes are that I have to hold X to run and that I can't melee attack rapidly. I mean hell I don't need to be able to run and knife, just let me knife quickly without having to "ready" my knife.
Other than that the game itself is a fun time, eventually I started being able to manage the retarded aspects of the controls, the same can't be said for my roommate, who repeatedly was killed by the chainsaw. On that note the split-screen co-op is designed awkwardly as well, there are unused black rectangles at opposite corners, which I see no reason for. The "Help" melee assists are pretty sweet though, but the enemy A.I. is awkward at times, the first demo level can be beaten by simply running around the map and waiting patiently. For me the game has it's fun moments, but those are mostly due to playing co-op and yelling at my buddy for dying an absurd amount of times. Unless a couple friends decide to get it I wont be buying the game though.
Other than that the game itself is a fun time, eventually I started being able to manage the retarded aspects of the controls, the same can't be said for my roommate, who repeatedly was killed by the chainsaw
. On that note the split-screen co-op is designed awkwardly as well, there are unused black rectangles at opposite corners, which I see no reason for. The "Help" melee assists are pretty sweet though, but the enemy A.I. is awkward at times, the first demo level can be beaten by simply running around the map and waiting patiently. For me the game has it's fun moments, but those are mostly due to playing co-op and yelling at my buddy for dying an absurd amount of times. Unless a couple friends decide to get it I wont be buying the game though.Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick187
Ok so the demo hit the PSN today so I got to try it out and I'm feeling so-so about the game after playing the demo. First of all I think that some aspects of the controls are just retarded. Is it really necessary to make it so you have to hold X to run, why can't it just be about the amount of deflection of the analog stick? Secondly, why do I need to stop moving and ready my knife, is it so inconceivable that a person may be able to swing a knife while moving their feet? I get the perspective from people that, this is how Resident Evil has always been controlled, but seriously some of the aspects need to be changed, or at least have the option to be changed. I mean take a look at the Metal Gear Solid series, the controls continually changed from game to game, and changed for the better. The fact that you have to be stationary to shoot your gun in this game doesn't bother me like I've heard it bother others, in fact I think that game may be too easy if it allowed you to run and gun, basically my gripes are that I have to hold X to run and that I can't melee attack rapidly. I mean hell I don't need to be able to run and knife, just let me knife quickly without having to "ready" my knife.
Also, the Wii Edition of Resident Evil 4 improves the knife function. You can either hold C to ready the knife, or simply swipe the wiimote left or right (a tiny swipe, not a big exaggerated one) to swing the knife and it'll even auto aim to the closest highest priority target. The knife's primary function really is to break barrels and crates and stuff so you don't have to shoot them and waste ammo. The knife isn't meant to be used as a main combat weapon, it's a last resort and it's used in combat by more skilled players... like Jeff and myself
I have thought about how the game would be if using the knife was as simple as just pressing a button, but I couldn't think of any way to make the animation smoother or faster. The character would have to quickly pull the knife out and slash extremely fast if it was just a single button press and that'd take too long unless you know made the hand motion and the knife appear in their hand and then disappear as soon as they're done with it...Oh, and the Wiimote's IR pointer is oh so superior to how you aim with traditional controls.
Be thankful though, in the ye olden RE games, you didn't even have a knife you could use all the time like this and aiming was a lot harder.Also, when it comes to melee attacks, you have to stun the enemies first... and that's very easy to do if you know how. In Resident Evil 4, I've gotten so good at it that I basically melee and knife my way through the game with great ease... what you're experiencing right now is just the suckiness of being a beginner XD
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Other than that the game itself is a fun time, eventually I started being able to manage the retarded aspects of the controls, the same can't be said for my roommate, who repeatedly was killed by the chainsaw . On that note the split-screen co-op is designed awkwardly as well, there are unused black rectangles at opposite corners, which I see no reason for. The "Help" melee assists are pretty sweet though, but the enemy A.I. is awkward at times, the first demo level can be beaten by simply running around the map and waiting patiently. For me the game has it's fun moments, but those are mostly due to playing co-op and yelling at my buddy for dying an absurd amount of times. Unless a couple friends decide to get it I wont be buying the game though.
. On that note the split-screen co-op is designed awkwardly as well, there are unused black rectangles at opposite corners, which I see no reason for. The "Help" melee assists are pretty sweet though, but the enemy A.I. is awkward at times, the first demo level can be beaten by simply running around the map and waiting patiently. For me the game has it's fun moments, but those are mostly due to playing co-op and yelling at my buddy for dying an absurd amount of times. Unless a couple friends decide to get it I wont be buying the game though.I haven't tried the local co-op but yeah, I heard it had that stupid black area splits screen. It's basically trying to give each player a 16:9 section each... anyway, if I was rich enough to get the PS3 version, I'd play with all the folks in here that'll buy the game for the PS3
But that doesn't mean the game isn't fun in single player.Yea, I'm sure I'd do just fine once I got used to the controls, heck I think I did fine, e.g. not dieing repeatedly and all even without having prior RE experience. I'm just not sure I want to get used to the controls, the game isn't really calling out to me. Then again, my first impression of PW:AA wasn't great either, but I ended up having a good time with that. I bow down to your and Jeff's superior RE-aptitude-i-ness though , like I said I can definitely see why Resident Evil has been a popular franchise it just isn't on the top of my to-buy list for this year so far. However, it is very entertaining to let your partner get swarmed by 5 or more zombies and then use the shotgun to... spread them out.
, like I said I can definitely see why Resident Evil has been a popular franchise it just isn't on the top of my to-buy list for this year so far. However, it is very entertaining to let your partner get swarmed by 5 or more zombies and then use the shotgun to... spread them out.How about you and I go online and play the demo together... I've dloaded it onto my PS3 yesterday... I'll talk more about some things I discovered while playing it in comparison to the 360 version in a later post...
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former
How about you and I go online and play the demo together... I've dloaded it onto my PS3 yesterday... I'll talk more about some things I discovered while playing it in comparison to the 360 version in a later post...
Anyway I did learn a bit more through playing tonight, mainly the shoot to stumble then melee tactic that seemed to be working quite well.Our first crack at the first level was kinda funny, we were doing alright defending the shack you start off in, got to the part where the Executioner busts through the wall, made it outside, shot some barrels to cause a fire. Everything seemed to be going well, then Lynk went into "dying mode" I dunno if it was brought up before, but basically you slowly start to lose all your health and you can't do anything but stumble around until your partner comes to heal you. Well, I healed Lynk, but then we both got immediately smacked by the Executioner and both went into "dying mode" and apparently when that happens, you're shit outta luck.
After that we replayed the 1st mission, swapping characters, and things went a bit smoother, though it did get to the point where we ended up having to "hide" on the roofs, and the top of the bus, which is what I kinda like to do on that level anyway. Although right before the level ended Lynk went into "dying mode" so the level ending saved us, because I had no idea how to get to where Lynk was XD. I feel bad though, seemed like Lynk was put in awkward situations because of my lack of familiarity with the game
Lastly we played the 2nd level but there wasn't anything overly exciting about that one, it went fairly smoothly I'd say.He fights for his friends XD
Yeah, with RE5 I like to play dangerously using mostly my knife and melee attacks with my partner covering me. When I play with most other people they provide good cover for me to do such things.
The second level wasn't that exciting for you because I was covering you so well lol. If you didn't notice any of the villagers killing you, it's cause they were already dead before they had that chance.
The second level wasn't that exciting for you because I was covering you so well lol. If you didn't notice any of the villagers killing you, it's cause they were already dead before they had that chance.
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