#1 | 14 June 2008, 8:24 AM
It was reported recently that a previously soon to be released PC title "Limbo of the lost" has directly "Borrowed" artwork from The Eldar Scrolls IV: Oblivion
The original GameSpot Article
PC game accused of purloining Oblivion assets - PC News at GameSpot
The GamePlasma Article featuring comparison screenshots.
GamePlasma.com - Gaming to the Next Level! Your Top Source for Up-to-the-Second Video Game News
Your Thoughts on this?
Quote:
Original article at Gamespot.com
The word "limbo" is a thesaurus-suggested synonym of "oblivion." So it's oddly fitting that Majestic Studios' Limbo of the Lost is under fire for apparently stealing art from Bethesda Softworks' The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.
As pointed out by GamePlasma, some of the environments in Limbo of the Lost bear a striking resemblance to areas of Oblivion, from textures used to room layouts and the objects that populate them. Although the similarities in the screenshots are undeniable, the games themselves are quite different in practice.
Published by Tri Synergy, Limbo of the Lost is a point-and-click adventure game in which players guide protagonist Captain Benjamin Spooner Briggs as he explores the realm of Limbo and The Keep of Lost Souls at its heart. Released in 2006 for the PC and Xbox 360 and the following year for the PlayStation 3, Oblivion is an open-world role-playing game in which players can create their own characters and save a kingdom from encroaching demons that are tearing holes in the fabric of reality.
A Tri Synergy representative addressed the matter for GameSpot, saying that the publisher had no previous knowledge of the issue. He also said a question had been raised about similar issues with Limbo of the Lost and Eidos' 2004 action adventure game Thief: Deadly Shadows.
"We're seeing this for the first time," the representative emphasized. "We had no idea any of this was going on."
Tri Synergy has already given Limbo of the Lost a limited release, and the representative said that it had not determined what to do regarding plans to release the game to major retailers such as Best Buy. So far, the publisher's attempts to reach the developer have not been successful, given that the team has apparently been on vacation after completing development on Limbo. The representative also said that Tri Synergy has not been in direct contact with Bethesda or Eidos yet.
A representative from Bethesda told GameSpot that the company was aware of the issue but was unable to comment on the matter. An Eidos representative had not returned a request for comment.
The word "limbo" is a thesaurus-suggested synonym of "oblivion." So it's oddly fitting that Majestic Studios' Limbo of the Lost is under fire for apparently stealing art from Bethesda Softworks' The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.
As pointed out by GamePlasma, some of the environments in Limbo of the Lost bear a striking resemblance to areas of Oblivion, from textures used to room layouts and the objects that populate them. Although the similarities in the screenshots are undeniable, the games themselves are quite different in practice.
Published by Tri Synergy, Limbo of the Lost is a point-and-click adventure game in which players guide protagonist Captain Benjamin Spooner Briggs as he explores the realm of Limbo and The Keep of Lost Souls at its heart. Released in 2006 for the PC and Xbox 360 and the following year for the PlayStation 3, Oblivion is an open-world role-playing game in which players can create their own characters and save a kingdom from encroaching demons that are tearing holes in the fabric of reality.
A Tri Synergy representative addressed the matter for GameSpot, saying that the publisher had no previous knowledge of the issue. He also said a question had been raised about similar issues with Limbo of the Lost and Eidos' 2004 action adventure game Thief: Deadly Shadows.
"We're seeing this for the first time," the representative emphasized. "We had no idea any of this was going on."
Tri Synergy has already given Limbo of the Lost a limited release, and the representative said that it had not determined what to do regarding plans to release the game to major retailers such as Best Buy. So far, the publisher's attempts to reach the developer have not been successful, given that the team has apparently been on vacation after completing development on Limbo. The representative also said that Tri Synergy has not been in direct contact with Bethesda or Eidos yet.
A representative from Bethesda told GameSpot that the company was aware of the issue but was unable to comment on the matter. An Eidos representative had not returned a request for comment.
PC game accused of purloining Oblivion assets - PC News at GameSpot
The GamePlasma Article featuring comparison screenshots.
GamePlasma.com - Gaming to the Next Level! Your Top Source for Up-to-the-Second Video Game News
Your Thoughts on this?
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#2 | 14 June 2008, 9:41 AM
This wouldn't be the first time that assets from one game have been reused in another, but this seems to be the first instance I can remember where this has happened without the knowledge of the creators of the game which had the original assets...
It brings up an interesting question... Who owns what and how deeply can you lay claim to specific videogame assets? When I think about it, I don't think you can really do anything about this... unless frowning upon such things can be counted as a real action against it XD ...So, unless a developer tries to put Master Chief in their game without the permission of Bungie + Microsoft, I don't think anything will really come of this aside from people noticing it and thinking it's pretty cheap.
Actually, it kind of reminds me of some of the funny little similarities The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and Harvest Moon for the SNES have. For example, the bushes in both games are similar, you can also pick them up and throw them in both games and the sound effect also sounds similar...
It brings up an interesting question... Who owns what and how deeply can you lay claim to specific videogame assets? When I think about it, I don't think you can really do anything about this... unless frowning upon such things can be counted as a real action against it XD ...So, unless a developer tries to put Master Chief in their game without the permission of Bungie + Microsoft, I don't think anything will really come of this aside from people noticing it and thinking it's pretty cheap.
Actually, it kind of reminds me of some of the funny little similarities The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and Harvest Moon for the SNES have. For example, the bushes in both games are similar, you can also pick them up and throw them in both games and the sound effect also sounds similar...
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#3 | 14 June 2008, 12:15 PM
It'll be interesting to see what happens next- will they get sued, will they buy licenses to use the content, or will something entirely different happen?
All assets created for use by a game are copyrighted under modern copyright statutes, so a lawsuit for copyright infringement can be carried out against the person or company who used those assets without permission. It may not have to come to that, however- the developers of Limbo may end up licensing the content and paying a royalty to the companies they borrowed the material from.
All assets created for use by a game are copyrighted under modern copyright statutes, so a lawsuit for copyright infringement can be carried out against the person or company who used those assets without permission. It may not have to come to that, however- the developers of Limbo may end up licensing the content and paying a royalty to the companies they borrowed the material from.
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#4 | 14 June 2008, 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbd 
All assets created for use by a game are copyrighted under modern copyright statutes, so a lawsuit for copyright infringement can be carried out against the person or company who used those assets without permission. It may not have to come to that, however- the developers of Limbo may end up licensing the content and paying a royalty to the companies they borrowed the material from.
What I'm saying is that this does go beyond simply this one incident. There are a lot of games out there and a lot of them are set in similar environments. How do we we distinguish which assets can be considered generic enough that you can't really lay claim, and which ones are unique enough that you can?
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#5 | 14 June 2008, 12:36 PM
Well all the different art forms and styles used in games can give lots of varition on what something generic like grass could look like =P
If you modified a texture so much it didn't even look like the same thing it was representing before are you still infringing because you used someone else's work to create it?
If you modified a texture so much it didn't even look like the same thing it was representing before are you still infringing because you used someone else's work to create it?
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#6 | 14 June 2008, 1:59 PM
Lynk, it all comes down to whether a company believes that its rights have been infringed, and if so, it will bring a case against the infringers. The question is whether the items were lifted wholesale, or similar items were created, but even that question doesn't really encompass the infringement principle.
For direct copying of assets, well, that's pretty open and shut, and if they did it, then I'm not sure what sort of defense they can apply.
As for similarities, the best example from music has to do with George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord", and the old song "She's so Fine". That was a landmark case for musical infringement.
I've seen screenshots of the game, and I don't think it's a question of similarities. I think they may have lifted resources, and in some cases whole level designs, wholesale from other games.
The question of generic versus specific will probably be decided in a court somewhere.
Edit- there are a bunch of screenshots at this Penny-Arcade thread:
[Steal On] Limbo of the Lost (Grand Theft Everything) - Games and Technology - Penny Arcade Forums
For direct copying of assets, well, that's pretty open and shut, and if they did it, then I'm not sure what sort of defense they can apply.
As for similarities, the best example from music has to do with George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord", and the old song "She's so Fine". That was a landmark case for musical infringement.
I've seen screenshots of the game, and I don't think it's a question of similarities. I think they may have lifted resources, and in some cases whole level designs, wholesale from other games.
The question of generic versus specific will probably be decided in a court somewhere.
Edit- there are a bunch of screenshots at this Penny-Arcade thread:
[Steal On] Limbo of the Lost (Grand Theft Everything) - Games and Technology - Penny Arcade Forums
Last edited by wbd; 14 June 2008 at 2:10 PM..
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#7 | 14 June 2008, 2:28 PM
I've seen comparison shots too, and I know this is a pretty cheap rip-off, it's obvious that it is. What I question is whether anything can be done about it.
Copyright in terms of music and the music industry is one thing... but copyright in terms of digital media and individual digital assets is another. Even if a company believes their rights have been infringed... will the law support their claim and side with them or will it be considered too ambiguous in terms of all that legal mumbo-jumbo? I know it seems a lot clearer, but as I said, we're talking about digital media and individual assets rather than an entire game being ripped off.
I know, as crazy as it sounds, these are real concerns when it comes to digital media which are still being figured out. In the end, it's good that the game was pulled from shelves in the first place.
Copyright in terms of music and the music industry is one thing... but copyright in terms of digital media and individual digital assets is another. Even if a company believes their rights have been infringed... will the law support their claim and side with them or will it be considered too ambiguous in terms of all that legal mumbo-jumbo? I know it seems a lot clearer, but as I said, we're talking about digital media and individual assets rather than an entire game being ripped off.
I know, as crazy as it sounds, these are real concerns when it comes to digital media which are still being figured out. In the end, it's good that the game was pulled from shelves in the first place.
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#8 | 14 June 2008, 2:36 PM
The only way to know for sure is to take them to court. Infringement needs to be substantial in some ways, but not so much in others. If it can be shown that the infringement was substantial of the individual assets, then I think that the developers of Limbo will be in real trouble. The law tends to fall on the side of supporting copyright claims to significant elements of a piece- a song from a play, for example, or in this case, a menu or a level layout and textures.
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#9 | 14 June 2008, 2:40 PM
Actually, you'd be surprised what people can get away with in terms of copyright laws... unless we're talking about patents.
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#10 | 14 June 2008, 2:41 PM
I think it comes down to the integrity of the developer in things like this, obviously no company would even openly admit that they ripped off another game's assets but even just looking at whether the textures are only similar or if they are exact...There is probably no legal precedence for something like this if it did go to court. Its possible an individual working on this game borrowed some assets without the higher ups even knowing about it, or designed his textures to look the same at least.
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#11 | 14 June 2008, 7:11 PM
I did a little researching and It appears that the publisher Tri Synergy has pulled the title from both retail and online outlets XD
I think the thread over on penny arcade pretty much sums up just how many things Limbo has ripped off.
SO lets see... so far this game has confirmed material from...
Oblivion
UT 2003/2004
Silent Hill
Diablo 2
World of Warcraft
And more i'm sure...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbd
[Steal On] Limbo of the Lost (Grand Theft Everything) - Games and Technology - Penny Arcade Forums SO lets see... so far this game has confirmed material from...
Oblivion
UT 2003/2004
Silent Hill
Diablo 2
World of Warcraft
And more i'm sure...
Last edited by Dama733; 14 June 2008 at 7:39 PM..
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#14 | 15 June 2008, 4:33 AM
Makes an interesting title need to make orginial art work in my opinion :P not take it from something else
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#15 | 15 June 2008, 5:35 AM
well, if they did it is probably because they can get away with it, is like those Chinese companies that sells products under the brand SQNY or Duravell.
The levels and textures surely aren't a rip off straight from Oblivion, that did be a dumb thing to do, so Majestic Studios made them themselves using Oblivion's as reference, so Bethesda might not be able to sue them. I think the problem here is what should and shouldn't not be copyrightable, is alright to copyright level designs, concepts or ideas? If we think outside games then Microsoft might sue all those OSes that use windows and icons together with a taskbar and a wallpaper because it will look like a win95 clone.
I think is alright if Bethesda can't sue them because probably it isn't even a derivative work from Oblivion, they used just Oblivion's ideas and concepts, not any bytes from an Oblivion DVD. In any case this practice shouldn't be encouraged, just don't buy the game, the bad image that Majestic Studios will get from this will guarantee that they won't get other game out successfully.
mmm, maybe Majestic Studios doesn't been exist, I can't find any other games done by them, and their people went on vacation? my, how convenient ...
The levels and textures surely aren't a rip off straight from Oblivion, that did be a dumb thing to do, so Majestic Studios made them themselves using Oblivion's as reference, so Bethesda might not be able to sue them. I think the problem here is what should and shouldn't not be copyrightable, is alright to copyright level designs, concepts or ideas? If we think outside games then Microsoft might sue all those OSes that use windows and icons together with a taskbar and a wallpaper because it will look like a win95 clone.
I think is alright if Bethesda can't sue them because probably it isn't even a derivative work from Oblivion, they used just Oblivion's ideas and concepts, not any bytes from an Oblivion DVD. In any case this practice shouldn't be encouraged, just don't buy the game, the bad image that Majestic Studios will get from this will guarantee that they won't get other game out successfully.
mmm, maybe Majestic Studios doesn't been exist, I can't find any other games done by them, and their people went on vacation? my, how convenient ...
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